Re: Results of "downloading compressed program images" request

["Robert J. Brown" <rj@eli.elilabs.com>]

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Williams <steve@icarus.icarus.com> writes:

    Stephen> So what does that mean if I do not also make available
    Stephen> schematics available for the whole product? My experience
    Stephen> (and I am reasonably skilled in the art) is that software
    Stephen> is useless without some knowledge of the hardware running
    Stephen> it. So am I complying with the GPL even though I am not
    Stephen> supplying enough information for another programmer to
    Stephen> make informed changes?

Now you're catching on.  :-)

    Stephen> With a standard computer, i.e. a UNIX workstation, I can
    Stephen> answer this question, but it is not at all clear where
    Stephen> this boundary lies when I write a program for X Motor
    Stephen> Inc.'s spark control computer. Frankly, the source code
    Stephen> is not in general something that even another programmer
    Stephen> can make sense of without access to applicable details of
    Stephen> the hardware.  A lot of this is implicit when talking
    Stephen> about UNIX programs or PC software.

Since all the LGPL requires you to provide is the rest of the
*SOFTWARE* in the form that software is most easily changed, *NOT* all 
the information needed to actually understand what you are doing if
you choose to change it, you have satisfied the requirements.

For a Unix example, the XFree86 project distributes source code for
drivers for various display hardware configurations.  They are
certainly *NOT* required to distribute the schematics of all the
boards you might possibly run it on.  In fact, to do so might be trade 
secret violation.  

Nonetheless, since I am skilled in the art, I was able to use that
source code to get my IBM ThinkPad 365XD display to work in an
acceptable manner.  If I blew the silly thing up trying, chalk it up
to experimental error.  I would have no recourse against either the
XFree86 project or IBM.  (IMO)

Are you saying that I should really sue both of them, especially IBM,
since they *REFUSED* to give me timing information that would have
made my job easier, and could have eliminated the possibility that I
would destroy the display?  

Oh, goody!  Lets go sue IBM!  I happen to know that their corporate
policy when dealing with *INDIVIDUALS* in such matters is to cave in
and settle out of court.  I'm rich!  (wishful thinking!)

    Stephen> OK so maybe this is a big maybe, but neither Joel nor I
    Stephen> are going to be the poor souls who establish the
    Stephen> requisite case law for the rest of you.

And if everybody does likewise, they win and we loose.  Is there any
hope?  What does the FSF have going in this area?

    Stephen> So forget all this. I provide all the software for my VCR
    Stephen> board. This board has a special 68ec0X0 with special VCR
    Stephen> controls and a mask ROM on a chip.  You get a floppy with
    Stephen> the unit, and enough information that you can do whatever
    Stephen> to damn well please. But, I will not sell you the chip
    Stephen> with the mask and the 68x00 core because I need all of
    Stephen> them. Besides, you really expect me to make chips for you
    Stephen> with the masks you desire? Hah! So am I complying with
    Stephen> the GPL? Maybe, maybe not. You tell me.

You are in complete compliance, since all the GPL regulates is the
Gnu library, and software you wrote -- nothing else!!!

    Stephen> I am a proponent of the GPL process, I have configured
    Stephen> emacs to put the GPL notice in every new C/C++ file I
    Stephen> create. However, there are limits.

Then you better delete that notice from the files of any code you
embed in your oroduct, or else you must make source code available,
not just object libraries, and this applies even if you use no LGPL-ed
libraries in your deliverable.  Even if nobody know about these
notices in your code, if your files ever get subpoenaed for any
reasonm the dirty laundry will come out.  Do not put the GPL in code
you do not indend to distribute in source form.  It could get you in
trouble!

    Stephen> Incidentally, I don't know any lawyers personally. I
    Stephen> don't listen to them because they don't talk to me.

I do know some, and I have been through the patent process with a
patent of my own, and I have been retained *BY THE LAWYERS* as an
expert witness to help them prepare their case for their client in a
software intellectual property issue that established a couple of
precedents in case law which, without my help and guidance, might
still be unresolved.  See the following links:

http://eli.elilabs.com/~rj/resume/node2.html#SECTION000200100000000000000 
http://eli.elilabs.com/~rj/energy-patent.html

Call me Dr. Science.  I know more than you do.  I'm not a real doctor;
I have a masters degree... in: no, not science, but math, which is
close enough for horseshoes and handgrenades and USENET. :-)

    Stephen> -- Steve Williams steve@icarus.com steve@picturel.com

    Stephen> "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.  But I have
    Stephen> promises to keep, And lines to code before I sleep, And
    Stephen> lines to code before I sleep."

-- 
--------  "And there came a writing to him from Elijah"  [2Ch 21:12]  --------
Robert Jay Brown III rj@eli.elilabs.com  http://www.elilabs.com 1 847 705-0424
Elijah Laboratories Inc.;  37 South Greenwood Avenue;  Palatine, IL 60067-6328
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