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"Robert J. Brown" wrote: > > [automated software testing] > > I agree that it is badly needed, but my experience has been that > nobody wants to pay the price at the start of a project to design with > test in mind, and nobody wants to pay the price at the end of the > development cycle to ram testing into the game plan now that they > understand the need. > > The only solution seems to be to sell top management on requiring > testing as part of any project plan, and have an SQA group that is not > just lip service from people who are not skilled enough to write > software themselves, but are experienced professionals who truly > understand what make quality software, including testing. > > I have yet to see this happen anywhere outside the free software > community, especially at Cygnus Solutions. I have to confess I read this with some surprise! A very substantial portion of the gcc/egcs, binutils and gdb tests and testsuites were written by Cygnus. These are run in an automated fashion inside Cygnus weekly at worst, and in some cases daily (as well as when engineers run through the tests themselves of course). And to counter by example what you say about reluctance to design with test in mind, Cygnus's newer product eCos was written with testing in mind from the beginning. It comes with a large testsuite, and already internally we have a complete automated testing system that is planned to reach the outside world in due course. Other non-GNU Cygnus products, including graphical ones, have automated testsuites too. Most of the eCos, gcc/egcs, binutils and gdb tests were written by the developers, not a separate SQA group. So I would be interested to know how you got this impression. I agree that people should be cautious with software that does not have automated testing - ad hoc testing could never cover as much ground; but that isn't the case for GNU and Cygnus products. You can reply off the list if you like. Jifl -- Cygnus Solutions, 35 Cambridge Place, Cambridge, UK. Tel: +44 (1223) 728762 "Women marry hoping their husbands will change, men||Home e-mail: jifl @ marry hoping their wives never do. Both are rare." || jifvik.demon.co.uk Help fight spam! http://spam.abuse.net/ These opinions are all my own fault _______________________________________________ New CrossGCC FAQ: http://www.objsw.com/CrossGCC _______________________________________________ To remove yourself from the crossgcc list, send mail to crossgcc-request@cygnus.com with the text 'unsubscribe' (without the quotes) in the body of the message.