This is the mail archive of the
mailing list for the Cygwin project.
Re: FYI: HTML targets in "Smart Questions"
- From: Raphael <raphael at oninet dot pt>
- To: Dario Alcocer <alcocer at helixdigital dot com>
- Cc: cygwin at cygwin dot com
- Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:25:50 +0100
- Subject: Re: FYI: HTML targets in "Smart Questions"
On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Dario Alcocer wrote:
> > If this list is starting autoreplying I will quit it immediatly, trafic is
> > (not counting repeated spam) high enough as it is.
> Well, that's OK, after all, that is your prerogative ;-) Please
> read on, though...
> > > Maybe
> > > they have to pass a quiz before they can post (now *that* should
> > > go over real well.) OTOH, maybe it would improve the signal/noise
> > > ratio.
> > IMHO the stupidest idea I've read till now, split the list in a 'dummies'
> > and a 'BOFH' version but dont start disciminating through automated
> > ballotage.
> The idea is not split the list, but for initial posters (from what
> I've seen on this list, most first-time posters qualify as newbies)
> to get a quick lesson in posting meaningful questions *before* they
> get to post (only for the first post.) That's why I suggested the
> poster, before they're allowed to post for the first time, get an
> e-mail asking them (in a cordial tone, obviously) that they *please*
> read the ESR essay *first*.
Well sending starting users a welcome faq is something completely
differend then a exame or quiz. I agree on that.
> The idea is that the auto-reply is sent only to the *poster* (thereby
> *reducing* traffic on the list)
> on their first (or maybe even second)
> post, that way we can be sure that, by the time we see their first
> post on the list, they've at least *some* notion of how to post a
> reasonable question. Think of it as an automated form of
> pseudo-moderation; only the first-time poster is moderated, which
> is done in an automated fashion.
Moderation? Donīt start me on that one. In the end Moderation only
resolves in new not cygwin lists that will attrackt trolls to the cygwin
list. I'm glad to eleborate if this is not clear.
> You may ask "we're did he come up with such a stupid idea like
> that!" Well, after being a member of this list for several years
> now, I've seen many of the experienced people get very frustrated
> with the list (DJ, Chris, and Chuck.) Most of this frustration
> has to do with having to "school" the new users in the proper way
> to conduct inquiries with respect to Cygwin.
Who asked them to school new users? Now don't get me wrong, anybody's
contribution is valuable and special. But if people think they have to
school fellow list members and are irritated by that it might be a good
idea for them to take some time of?
> Now, my thought was, we can either curse the darkness, or we can
> light a candle. My way of lighting a candle is to automate what
> Chris and Chuck always have to do manually: ask the user to perform
> some of the required "homework" that's stated in the ESR essay,
> before they ask their question.
But isn't this already asked before subscribing to the list? I subscibed
using the site and remeber clearly that there was somekind of incentive
there and if I'm not mistaking the manual states something alike. What a
lot of people forget is that for a newbee it is not always clear where to
find the right answer or faq. Now without provocating the obvious answer
of sending in a patch or diff (I can write a few lines but do not ask me
to diff or patch or CVS) might it be a good idea to extend this request
with some lines as how to use the listarchive and to set up some kind of
extended FAQ page on the site?
> Instead of continually expecting
> hard-working people like Chris and Chuck to keep having to deal
> with these "newbie" requests, let's automate the process (after
> all, computers are good at automation), so that the newbies can
> still participate (after first having been properly "trained".) The
> rest of us on the list can hopefully see an increase in the quality
> of the questions that are asked, and the quality of the responses,
> while at the same time slightly reducing the list traffic.
Well as you noticed I think it's better to give 'hardworking people' their
own list where they will not be bothered. I could even agree to make that
accesible by an exame ;-)
> == Footnotes ==
>  - One other way to do this is to include a link to the ESR essay
> in the confirmation e-mail subscribers receive, but I *doubt* very
> much that most would take the time to read it then. However, if
> we instead wait to ask them when they're focused on getting their
> first question answered, we can hopefully start teaching them the
> fine art of asking questions.
Is that what this list is for?
>  - Their frustration has a direct impact on all of us; to the
> extent that they feel "used and abused" (so to speak), we'll probably
> see their contributions suffer, which is bad for all of us involved
> in Cygwin.
From experience I know their are more trees in the forrest and if Alice
stamps here feet the cheshire cat starts smiling and becomes invisable.
Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html