Re: Q: should it work?

["Shaun Jackman" <sjackman at gmail dot com>]

On 4/1/06, Danny Backx <danny.backx@scarlet.be> wrote:
> Shaun,
>
> Thanks a lot for your quick answer.
>
> I must admit I didn't look good enough at the voxware site to figure out
> that the tar files are still there, even though the install directory
> pointed to by the gnuwince.html page is missing.

http://win-ce.voxware.com:28575/Development%20Tools/gnuwince.html

> A quick resume of what I found and experienced this far :
> - I started using Shauns stuff from the debian ftp server a while ago
>   (I'm not using Debian so I recompiled it.)
> - Even though Shaun says this cannot be used to build apps that provide
>   a windows user interface, I've been able to do so (but not every
>   windowing API appears to work).

Eric House is also using the pocketpc-gcc toolchain to build Win32 API
code. On this topic, he would be the person with whom to speak.

> - To do that, I've implemented some workarounds that I'd like to get rid
>   of. Also maybe some of the limitations can be lifted by further work.

To use the GUI API, you've probably attacked the same problems as
Eric. Get in touch with him.

>   I was thinking about doing that, but am inclined to start off with a
>   more up to date source distribution, to at least have a chance on the
>   GCC/binutils folks pick up the patches.

I absolutely agree with moving to a newer toolchain. The toolchain
only stopped because it was the last version with which *I* developed.

> By the way I have a standard PocketPC (a Mio 168) and a PC with
> Mandriva, and I'd like to develop GUI apps for the PocketPC. As an
> experiment I'm porting Xinvest (http://xinvest.sunsite.dk).

An X11 app! Very ambitious. Which X server will you use? I'd think a
GTK+DirectFB application would be easier.

> What I am missing :
> - Documentation so I know what I'm doing (to be honest, I've been doing
>   some trial and error, there has to be a better way).

There's no documentation. Reading the source is the only way to reach
enlightenment. newlib/libc/sys/wince and pocketpc-sdk will be good
reading.

>   I'd like to find out more about the processor (how do you program
>   it in assembler, what's the ABI, ..). Also I don't have much info
>   on how WinCE really works on this hardware.

The processor is an ARM sumpin sumpin (Intel StrongARM mebbe).

The ABI may be the standard ARM ABI:

	http://www.arm.com/products/DevTools/ABI.html

I have no idea what syscall ABI the Pocket PC uses. In my discussion
with Eric on this topic, we concluded that the machine syscall
interface (SWI probably) may or may not be a rather fast moving and
unpredictable target, which is usually wrapped by coredll.dll to such
a degree that you should consider calling the coredll.dll API the
syscall interface.

> - Explanation about the limitations I'm experiencing. I realise that
>   the answer I may get is "we don't know".

I suppose this depends on what limitations you have encountered.

> - A bit of help in getting the new software releases operational, but
>   maybe the first thing to do there is figure out which part is broken.
>   (Shaun suggests it is gas, but I've blindly upgraded all three
>   softwares - gcc, binutils, newlib - so the first thing I should do is
>   assess which one is causing the problem.)

gas is broken only when building a DLL. In what manner is the
toolchain not working for you?

> - For this last bit : should I theoretically be able to pick up the
>   wince stuff from either Shaun's debian distribution or the voxware
>   stuff, or are there more up to date versions of that ?

The pocketpc-gcc toolchain uses newer version of the upstream software
than GNUWINCE. Voxware, however, has some binary tarballs of the
toolchain that might help you hit the ground running. Although, if you
unpack the .deb packages, I suppose you could call those the same
thing.

> Suggestions ?

Eat more rice pudding. It's tasty.

Cheers,
Shaun