RE: GDL, XML and others...Re: OT Python stuff (was RE: Python in Xconq)

[Jakob Ilves <illvilja at yahoo dot com>]

Hello again!


--- "Brandon J. Van Every" <vanevery@indiegamedesign.com> skrev: > Jakob Ilves wrote:
> >
> > <troll type="flamebait">
> >   ...game design GUIs anyone?
> > </troll>
> 
> Let's get to usable OO game design APIs before even bothering to waste a
> brain cell on that.  For instance, I'd like to see a fledgling game

Oh no, there's a lot of people on this list who _LOVE_ to waste braincells on stuff!  We will
continue to do so, regardless if the things we suggest gets Xconq anywhere or not.  The truth is,
you don't know what idea or whatever there is that sparks of some good leaps in Xconq development.
 (Ok, someone might actually manage to inspire folks do develop Xconq into some totally disastrous
direction but I consider that risk neglible).

Seriously, you appear to be very focused and ambitious which is good. That's the attitude I have
towards software development (mine and others) when I'm at work.  However, when I get into the
Xconq world, I don't want to "get to work" again.  I don't want that "life and death" kind of
attitude towards software development which I have at my job, I want to have a software project I
can have a relaxed attitude to.  And therefore, I don't take Xconq _THAT_ serious and I think many
other people on the list feels the same.

Sure, Xconq would in a way benefit if we made all the right decisions and never went down the
"wrong tracks" and analyze things carefully before every step and so on.  But that would be
_BORING_ because we would not do any experimentation, no "we try this out and if it don't work
we'll scrap it".

Many of us are here to make mistakes as well as clever decisions.  Actually, some of us find
mistakes made in a relaxed environment quite rewarding.

(Actually, that's why I'm into strategy games.  My life is good and comfortable, so I have a need
for simulating situations where I'm by no means are safe but instead might be obliterated in quite
fascinating ways.)

Xconq has been developing slowly in a sense and I can see that if you're impatient, that can be
frustrating to see other people reluctant to force the development pace.

Another intresting thing, given that Xconq don't develop at the speed of light is that the Xconq
project actually can monitor other, not ready, projects for useful tools to use in a year or two. 
Some unfinished stuff out there WILL be finished and Xconq can actually count on using them once
they are ready.

> designer / mediocre programmer write a Python script that implements a
> One Hex Combat Resolution system.  With that sort of API tool, Xconq
> doesn't have to be a game about hiding outside of cities you've just
> taken over.

Oh, yes, I know!  Take the city with ONE tank... And don't leave any other units in it when the
enemy is nearby.  But cannot GDL be written such that unless you kill or route away all units of a
certain type, you cannot capture the unit?  Isn't there a "occupant-defend" or such?  Or maybe
that just means they counter attack and if they fail to slay the attacker the attacker then has a
chance to capture the city ANYWAY?


I remember when I first saw Xconq in 1988, it was a hacked up version at Chalmers university and
in that game, you _STUFFED UP_ your cities with all kinds of infantry, mechinf and armor and an
attacker had to slay ALL of them to capture the city.  Sure, if all defenders had the experience
level "green" (lowest) and the attacker were a commando unit with experience "Ramboid" (highest
level) that attacker could actually carry out one attack and destroy them all defenders in a row
and then march in.  Of course, that commando would then better leave, because commandos were not
excellent city defenders in that game.

<offtopic>
Ah, I'll write a separate mail about that, Brandon, about that old hacked Xconq!  You've already
triggered my "sentimental asshole" state by mentioning 6502 assembler and such things from the
early 80's.  (CBM 64... lovely system! 1MHz CPU. No machine code instructions for multiplying or
division.  16 colors video. :-).  So, as a counter strike against you personally I mention these
things: Metagaming's "Ogre" and "Chitin:II", Task force game's "Starfire" series, GDW:s
"Asteroid", "Dark Nebula" and "Imperium".  Of course... "Advanced Dungeon and Dragons".

Let's see if that struck you with sentimentality as well! (of an enjoyable kind of course :-)
</offtopic>

> You could have a GUI to implement various kinds of OHCRs, someday, but
> first you need an API for OHCRs.  No point visually programming what you
> don't even know how to manually program yet.

Well, at least one point... it's an exercise in coding the stuff.  Of course, it might or might
not be frustrating to see that code being unable to run due to the API changing.  But that's life
when developing with bleeding edge stuff.  Scrapping code one have written in the past...

> > Well, the OO implementation is sure OO, but I find it
> > amazingly lightweight.  Like as if Monthy
> > Python (no pun vs Python language intended) would have
> > designed it.  But as I said, that's no
> > problem, only charming...
> 
> Ministry of Sillycoding?

:-D!

Javascript is nice for code you bolt together on the fly in a .CGI script before you send it in a
HTML page to the eager webbrowser.

> > Ooh, I'm talking about SVG _AGAIN_...  I _REALLY_ refuse to
> > get back to earth, don't I ;-)?
> 
> Who knows, you may yet talk yourself into coding XML / SVG stuff.

The awful thing is that I'm already there in my job.  Being a real masochist, I write the graphics
in a text editor (anyone else who's a _real man_ ;-).  Seriously, that's the only way to learn
well enough to successfully create .CGI scripts which are capable of emitting useful SVG code for
the end user.  But I'm evaluating editors.  Sodipodi is closest to my needs.  See, another open
source project where I might need to contribute in order to get what I want. There so many of them
:-).
 
But who knows, I might have time in February next year to do some sabotages by infecting Xconq
with XML/SVG...  "XML Batik? xpat? Oh no, not yet ANOTHER software package needed for Xconq, I've
already installed Perl/Python/MSExcel/Mozilla/Slammer etc".

> 
> Cheers,                     www.indiegamedesign.com
> Brandon Van Every           Seattle, WA
> 
> Taking risk where others will not.

Best regards

/IlvJa


=====
(Jakob Ilves) <illvilja@yahoo.com>
{http://www.geocities.com/illvilja}

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